Anneke, can you please introduce your story?
Yes, I do. I was born in Belgium in 1963, my mother was without a partner and was not completely mentally well. She never got an official diagnosis, but she certainly wasn't fine. I was abused from the very beginning. When I was three years old, she got married and we moved to another town in Flanders. My stepfather was absent a lot and I think my mother was singled out by the so-called network. I call it a network, it's an organized group of people with different positions who have their own power structure and who also maintain power in the city and who also connect with people who have more power within the country and also internationally. So the secret club. I don't know exactly how most people join, but in my case my mother was singled out because of her mental illness. And so these people showed up - a cleaning lady who, along with her husband, were pimps for this network, and they started grooming (a victim preparation tactic, ed.) my mom and my parents for a year. They started taking me with them, I never wanted to go with them, but I had to. Shortly after that I was raped by this husband, it was around my 6th birthday. And sometime around that time they also took me to orgies in the context of this network. These were aristocrats who were often part of this network. But later I noticed that all social classes were present, but most of all the elites associating power and using children, that is, pedophilia for blackmail. So as a young child, since my mother was not part of the network herself, I was used for anything and everything. That means that I could also be killed, and I was also often used for blackmail.
Later on, my mom somehow got herself networked. I tried to explain to her somehow what happened when it first happened. But she got the car. She didn't have a car before. She didn't even know how to drive. She got a car and started driving me to the network herself, she was paid. Later, after three years in the network, I was part of the business. I was given as a gift to someone from an international network. He was interested in me and wanted to make me his private slave. He was American, but he was part of an international network and in what I call the core of power. These people really want to control the world and because they own all the resources, they are the richest people in the world. But they are also often controlled by unseen agents within the network.
At that time I went through mind control training in Germany. I was to be used for very specific purposes. Mind control is a set of scientific and very impressive techniques for summoning your gifts through torture and then using them for their own dark purposes, including the occult.
For example, this includes opening psychic gifts through trauma for occult purposes and using them to maintain their power. So after a year at the core of this international network, when I was used and sold to the most powerful man in the world, it was 1972-73. I rebelled against the man who was supposed to be my owner. And then I was viciously kicked out of that core. I was reprogrammed, that is, the programming I received from them was sabotaged so that I would not be able to use my gifts against them. Then I was sent back to the Belgian network for another year. The book you read, Quest for Love, the memoir of a child sex slave, is set in the time period during that year. And it's the last year in the network. On the one hand I could be used by the most powerful people, on the other hand I had no value. I was about to lose my life, this event is described in detail in the book. At the last moment I was rescued from the net, I was 11 years old, in 1974.
I am sorry, Anneke, that you have had to go through all this and I am sorry that it is still happening. When I read your book, I always had to prepare myself internally for this. I couldn't read it in the evening, I could only read it during the day, it was too much for me.
That's actually a nice note, don't read it at night or you'll have trouble sleeping, yes. Thanks for saying that.
Thank you for talking about the subject, Anneke, and for bringing it up, especially when - as you say - it involves a lot of powerful people and power structures. So great respect to you and other survivors and speakers. You've been off the grid since you were 11 years old. Can you tell us more about your healing, your therapy?
Yes, I didn't start treatment at 11, I wasn't completely out. Let's just say I was physically safe from the net. Partially. I was still with my mother and it wasn't real safe. But in my rescue, I was given very specific instructions on how to live my life. So I followed them because they were very good and very detailed. They were about prostitution, drugs, alcohol, where to live, who to marry. They were very specific, which is why I live in New York. That was also part of the instructions - to leave Belgium and live in Paris, London or New York. I lived in all three cities, but I ended up in New York. And indeed, I also married a man who fit the profile that was described by my rescuer. So part of the instruction was also to never talk about the network and forget everything, never say anything. At the time of my rescue, I didn't think I could forget those things, but the fact is that when I went to school, I didn't remember where I was on the weekend (a symptom of Dissociative Personality Disorder, note). Part of the scientific knowledge that is used in the network, in mind control, is that children are dissociated through the trauma that is inflicted on them. So we have not experienced "just" rape, which is enough to completely dissociate a child and have a state of amnesia later on. You couldn't actually live with people you know are monsters who do these things, you'd be scared to death, you wouldn't be able to bear it. So amnesia is a very common way we cope with trauma, and dissociation is caused deliberately as part of mind control training to create new parts (personalities, n.b.). So children are deliberately traumatized to the point of complete emptiness when they don't know anything anymore. This state is then used to fill it with what is desirable for the network and sometimes specific purposes for you. Many of the purposes are sexual, of course, and many children are traumatized to be used for sex, but also to kill and then potentially become part of the network themselves and become rapists and killers. It has to be understood that this network is satanic, it is totally psychopathic and it is difficult to believe because it is extreme, but it is true, children are killed and sacrificed, also animals and sometimes adults. It's horrific, it's worse than any horror movie you've ever seen, that's the network.
And of course, the people who are active in it are themselves dissociated and may have a friendly personality during normal day life, while at the same time not knowing what they are doing at night, because they wouldn't be able to live with themselves. Because of the shame you feel when you're raped and when you're called a slut as a child and you have to take on these horrible projections as a child, you don't want to remember that at all. So it's a natural thing that happens during trauma and it's exploited by the network. So I wasn't even aware of what was going on, it wasn't even happening in the presence of my mother. My mom was doing everything in the world to get her power back. She even took me into the network one last time behind the backs of the network leaders. That's when I figured out that she was being paid - because the last time she offered me up there for free, she talked about it in front of me. She was also trying to strangle me, because I was telling the truth, things that didn't fit with her image of the perfect mother.
It's like living in my mother's totalitarian state, a tyrant who accepted the only narrative of herself as the perfect mother. And anything that contradicted that just didn't exist. I was tortured, I had injuries, scabs, I couldn't go to school because of it, it was obvious, but she still pretended it didn't exist and made up stories to cover it up.
Until I saw the injuries, I was aware of everything. And it was creating an incredible tension where she was showing her tyrannical nature, then later sexually abusing me again to get her power back. And of course, I was 11 years old, so I shut down and outwardly communicated what she wanted to hear. I had to live with her, so I had to affirm that she was the perfect mother and I was whatever I was supposed to be in her presence. And I followed those instructions. They were sort of in my subconscious. I left the house as early as I could, which was part of the instructions. When I was 15, I started wandering, staying with others longer and longer, finding my way. I hung out in cafes, bars, with musicians and the like, not with the worst people in the world.
So I stayed here and there and at 16 I left home and went my own way. I didn't do prostitution or do drugs or alcohol, although I was naturally drawn to those things. I went to Antwerp, I worked at the Red Districts, but I didn't sleep with people. I was a hostess, I had drinks with customers, but I didn't sleep with anyone. So I didn't do that for a long time. I was drawn to it because of my past. I followed those instructions, but my life was still very demanding. And the presence of trauma was obvious, I think anyone could have noticed it, but no one ever reacted to it. I went into therapy in my 80s. I was in my early twenties and I felt that something was wrong. Like it wasn't me. And like nothing was real, real, I couldn't connect with it.
During my first few weeks in therapy, I was able to experience a sense of something real. It was very painful, I cried for several weeks. I was confronted with the truth. ... I was very bright and suddenly I felt like I was losing it because of the victimization, because of that victim position and that pain. But I thought there was something true there, so I kept going, even though I was scared - my identity was connected to being smart and insightful. And that was breaking along with this truth, these feelings, this victimization, I was in a place where I didn't feel like I was a child, a child who was being hurt - and that was very difficult. I was in therapy for 10 years and I had flashbacks about the network all the time.
What has helped you stay in therapy?
The insights I was experiencing. I have felt pain and I have cried, but I have also experienced wisdom from the insights that have come. And from the first moment I understood something, I felt that I was integrating it. And I knew that what I wanted was insight. Knowledge, wisdom, that's what I want. And that's really the one thing that has guided my whole journey. And even though I had a lot of flashbacks, none of the therapists that I worked with were open to that. At the time, therapists didn't have the knowledge. It was also the beginning of the false memories syndrome movement. In the 1980s, there was an openness in society about this topic. I was in an Incest Survivors Anonymous group and there were also people who shared experiences of SRA. I didn't know about it because I didn't watch TV, but there were TV shows in the US at the time that featured SRA, only then the false memories syndrome movement came along and that was the end of it.
That was the early 90s. I was in therapy at the time and going through it all. I was having flashbacks in the late 80s. But you have to understand that mind control works in such a way that not only are you traumatized and guided to become a puppet in the service of the dark and corrupt goals of the network, but you are also trained to never talk about these things. So you are trained to believe, for example, that if you begin to remember, you must kill yourself, or die, or go insane. This is mind control, operating through repetition, intimidation and threats. I too have been told repeatedly, for example, that if this or that happens, it means you must kill yourself. So not only was I having flashbacks, but I was also triggering this suicidal programming. ... it was very powerful. The first flashbacks were followed by thoughts that if this is true, I have to kill myself. This was programming, I didn't really want to admit it, I didn't want it to be true either. Of course I didn't know what it was, I didn't have the context. I didn't want it to be reality. And then, in the early '90s, when I was really diving deep into my healing, the false memories movement grew in popularity.
But therapists are also just people, they too are on some level of self-healing. So these topics can touch on what they don't want to see in themselves. For example, with my first therapist I worked with, I couldn't talk about my mom. She had difficulties with her mother, and later wrote a book about it.
So you see, she was so protective of her mother. I couldn't talk about my mom. She didn't want to see my mother's darkness, so I couldn't talk about it. I could talk about satanic abuse, but I didn't even have a name for it. I only had glimpses of those horrors, and I really didn't want them to be real. But when I wanted to go in that direction, it was clear that there was no openness (on the part of the therapist, ed.) to it. In the sense that it certainly wasn't real. It was like that until the Marc Dutroux case, which broke in Belgium in 1996. Suddenly I had the context. At that time I was in therapy for the 9th year. The next year I found a therapist who was finally open to the subject. I would never wish anyone in therapy to go through what I went through, it was so terribly painful. My therapist was open but knew nothing more about the topic. Her openness, however, was the most important thing. It went very, very slowly though because I was never sure if she really understood what I was talking about. We children were forced to do terrible things. As a child you have a certain conscience, and of course the network tries to liquidate your conscience. So you either become like them and have no more conscience and you're a psychopath or you feel so terribly guilty for what you were forced to do that of course you never talk about it.
In the book you also talk about having had strong spiritual experiences, out-of-body experiences. Can you say more about what role spirituality played in your healing?
Yes, I had an out-of-body experience, I passed out, I had a near-death experience, but I had to come back. And in retrospect I can say that at some points I had no spiritual help and I was going through horrible experiences and I had to relive the whole horror. And then there were times when I was definitely getting help. And even though something horrible was happening, it was like it was taken off of me in the moment. As if I didn't have to go through it. And help comes, I feel a very kind presence. And I don't feel the pain that the attackers want me to feel. And sometimes it's mixed. But in retrospect, I can see that what I needed to heal was there. That means that if I need to go through the pain to learn, then I need to go back and feel the pain.
And some things I didn't have to learn. It was as if the experience had been taken away from me. You never know what happens to victims in these extreme conditions. I had a near-death experience, which I describe in the book. It was total consciousness transforming for a moment into the greater reality of the world of light, the astral world you might say. The physical body was left behind. My consciousness stepped out of the body and was in a body of light, you might say. I met my teacher, it was a breathtaking experience. And it was exactly what I needed to feel, because this incredible love is everywhere in the world, we just don't feel it. We're not in touch with it, but that love is very deep and it's like the engine of the universe, the attractive force that brings everything back to the truth. But being in that presence, that sacred presence of tremendous love, in the moment, feeling and knowing that this is real and whatever I have experienced or am experiencing in my human consciousness on Earth is not so real. On earth, everything is relative. Here it is all dual, but in that feeling of oneness with that indescribable love and then trying to bring/live it back here. Because what happens in these networks is that these people want power because they have no self-esteem. They need something from the world, worldly gifts so to speak, so they can feel like they are someone they are not, feel status, all that worldly power is for that. But in reality they are all looking for that bliss, that completeness, that oneness. Everybody is really looking for that one thing. It doesn't matter how you describe your desires, it is part of every desire - to find complete happiness, so you are complete in every moment, and everybody is seeking that state of bliss.
The states I experienced in the net were induced by drugs, sex or violence, they were very close to a state of bliss. It's very dark. And it's totally inverted, it's like cheating. That's not the way to really get to it. And you're actually cheating yourself. These people are actually very weak, they try to cheat absolutely everybody. But they have power in the world, that's the most important part, is the totally crazy part. They have reputation, money, influence. They are celebrities, politicians, royal aristocrats. They come from secret societies like the Freemasons and others. But the core of the network is satanic. So people literally sell their soul to Satan to get worldly power, resources, money. And of course power will give you everything. Power will give you money and sex and drugs, everything. I've bonded with them as a slave. But we're trained to be like them. I was forced to do certain things, but in the process you also meet your own dark side. You also meet your own shadow, and everything has a physical part where there is a release. So it's like a drug, you're off (high). But then the near-death experience I had, it's more subtle, but of course that's what you really want. But the experiences of bliss achieved through drugs, sex, violence are also pretty close. The ecstasy that you experience in those moments, the physical release that you experience. I think there's a psychological component to it as well - there's extreme projection going on so that you can hurt another. And when you do that, for a moment you get into that channel. To release everything that's ever been done to you and find freedom. I think everybody wants to find freedom from those burdens that have been thrown at them throughout their life.
And if you've been traumatized, you can't move on if you don't heal. But if you don't have the strength to heal, you will try to escape as much as you can. And then power is very very appealing because it offers relief and the idea of freedom.
What advice would you give to people who are still part of the network and would like to get out? Maybe shame or a feeling of being weak prevents them from doing so.
Interesting that you should ask that. No one has ever asked that. I do believe there are many people in the network who don't want to be there anymore. Being in the network means making a series of decisions at a time in your life when you weren't strong, but then you get stuck in it. And the whole point of this network is that it's a secret group, a club. They keep you in it because they have material on you that they've manufactured. Either it's pedophilia or you've been invited to a ritual. So there is, for example, material where you are present, where a child has been sacrificed. So once they have the material on you, you can't leave. But even if you had made up your mind before that moment, it's not easy. These are not friendly people. They are the most dangerous people in the world and they will do anything. They'll do anything to protect secrets. This is why it is so difficult for us survivors to speak up. We don't have a platform. We have to make our own, because the mainstream won't invite us, it's controlled by people from the network. And the alternatives won't invite us because they are often created to allow the division to continue. So they will touch on every controversial topic, except this one, because of paedophilia - that's the key.
So let's imagine that someone who is in the network really doesn't want to be there. The only thing you can do if you want to leave is to surrender. It requires you to connect with the spiritual, because only when you connect with the spiritual do you have courage. If you think of yourself as just a body and there is nothing more than this physical world, then you might as well be a Satanist, because that is what it is all about. In duality, although it is a dual plane, there is always good and evil. So if you think that there is only the body, there is nothing more, it's a satanic world, then it's true. This is the philosophy of the Satanists. But psychologically - not to believe that we are more than the body is a condition associated with trauma. And it's strongly rooted in fear. The fear that you are nothing more than a body, the fear that you are small, comes from untreated trauma. The issue is courage. If you have courage, you also have fear, but you consider the truth to be more important. But you have to be willing to go for it. In this day and age, you can be killed. You have to admit, commit yourself to the truth, and that is a spiritual task. So if you decide for the sake of truth not to go any further, it will not be easy. It takes tremendous courage. I am not saying it is not possible. It is possible, but we don't know what will happen. Like when you surrender to the truth and the light. If you commit to it, if you have that courage, then spirit will step in to protect and guide you. The difficult first step, however, is overcoming great fear towards courage.
Once you find the courage to stop wanting to follow and feel the pain of what you may have caused, you will be guided from within by your intuition. It won't be occult practices, psychic forces from the net with their messages. You will be guided from a place that is deeper and truer so that you can do what you need to do. And when you take that first step, everything will come together to support you. But it's all invisible support, especially in the beginning. So this is a big question because it's not without consequence, but it can be done. Thank you for this question. And I think change is happening.
So for those who have the courage to do the inner work today, there will come a time when you will be able to speak out. I don't like to think of it as a struggle, because it's always a personal struggle, to do the right thing versus not to do the right thing. It's always about being in a dual world. But in this situation, to be with the network and to be with power in this case is to be with pedophiles, to be with crazy people. And it means that children are being hurt and you see it, you even know it. So you're going to be so numb that you're going to go into indifference and you're not going to care about it at all and you're going to become more like them? Like those people who are completely lost in it? Or do you want to get out? You know, even if it's for the benefit of just one child, please do it.
Anneke, you say that neither side wants to talk about paedophilia, the subject of paedophilia is something that is not talked about. How so? How do you think about that?
I think that's key because a lot of people from the network are visible, they're on TV and they're in movies. A lot of people, not all of them. A lot of the politicians you vote for are paedophiles. In the US, you can see that there is a push to normalise paedophilia. I think once people find out that the actor they love or the politician they voted for or the millionaire who is a role model are paedophiles - how could people follow them? This network is very dark and I feel sorry for the people who get caught up in it. It is a big trap and the offer of power is very tempting. But once we find out that these people are paedophiles, I think the network will fall apart. Once there are enough people among the public who understand it, it won't be able to happen. There's going to have to be a revolt or protests or something, I don't know. If it becomes known that these people are pedophiles and even worse, that pedophilia is what allows entry into the network.. we learn about it from the Epstein affair, it gets out. It's much worse than what we're seeing with Epstein. The kids are much younger. What's being done to the kids? It's much worse.
Yes, I think about it that way too. Affairs like Epstein's, Weinstein's, Prince Andrew's. For now, this is what we as a society can take. But what you and other survivors report is yet another level of horror. Anneke, what do we need to realize as a society? For example, in my case, I listen to you and other survivors, I listen to experts and criminologists about organized abuse. And I notice that I perceive the world differently since then. It's a terrible shock, to accept this reality, to listen to this reality of survivors, I don't actually know how to think about the world. Maybe that's why it's so hard to get into the mainstream, because it's so horrible, it's shocking, it's unbelievable, it destroys your worldview. How can I ever rely on anything, trust anything? I feel totally helpless. Pardon me, I've said too much.
No, it's beautiful. Because this is exactly why the truth is so controversial, because it makes you question everything and your worldview. And that's very disturbing, and I think partly because it touches on your views of authority ... our view of authority comes from our upbringing. And we had parental figures in our childhood that were very much influenced by this toxic paradigm of power that's run by psychopaths. This is nothing new. Our parents were influenced and we were traumatized in some way, most of us. No one escapes, people enter adulthood in the Western world with some trauma because this is not the natural system. It is a system that is based on trauma. The abuse of power stems from trauma. It is a system that is based on abuse of power, and that creates the whole way the system works. As children, we are completely vulnerable. And there's an implicit invitation to all families, if you're an incestuous family, that you can get away with it. In terms of pushing the same lies, we're pedophiles but nobody knows it. We have a perfect image and we copy that into smaller power structures, into families. The family power structure used to be that there was a man at the top, then a woman to submit, and then children. Children are totally vulnerable, there's a lot of pressure not to heal the trauma, instead to pass it on to our children, secretly. A lot of things that happen in the family, if they stay there, there's an implicit invitation to repeat the abuse of power in the family rather than heal it.
By incestuous families, do you mean some kind of mainstream message or?
Incestuous families would be protected in such a framework of how the world works. In contrast, when our stories are heard, the worldview remains altered. I'm not just talking about incest. The abuses of power, the mistakes your parents make shape your (world). How you view authority is based on how you were raised. How will it turn out? Are you going to protect authority because your parents had a strong image and we have to protect the image of our parents, no matter what, and not tarnish it? So this is what is happening in the world. We are tarnishing the image of the parents of the world, and what is underneath is far worse than anyone ever imagined. But it touches on our personal trauma.
It takes courage just to absorb the truth. And the next step is something around me, my relationship to authority, then to the powerlessness that is felt. As survivors, we've been in this place a million times, and healing takes you each time to a place of powerlessness where you are completely vulnerable. How can you go back there but safely?
Well, that's it. If you've been abused, you're vulnerable. And then comes the abuse, the pain, the fear of abuse, so the only way we can heal is by feeling safe within ourselves. So in feeling safe within ourselves, how do we keep creating that awareness? First we must have the courage to accept this truth. And then I created the Unconditional model. There is a lot of pressure being created from the network, trying to manipulate people into thinking that certain things are helpful. The most important thing for a psychopath is to create division. If we are divided amongst ourselves, we will be too disturbed to look at our parents. So it's like a mutual fight, a fight between brothers and sisters. This division is created all the time through politics, but also through everything else. Division, division, division - so if you are on this side, you will be very much on that side, and if you are on the other side, you will be on that side. And that means you're against the people on the other side. Rather than talking and listening together and being open and moving towards real peace. It's important for peace that you are bigger than the parts that are reactive. So in my model, I'm talking about the paradigm of external power, ... I'm talking about the mind control of the whole world, everybody is under mind control and it's your untreated trauma that creates the blind spots that mind control then occupies. That is, the places that have not been healed create blind spots. And people who want to control the world use these blind spots, so mind control and brainwashing is effective. And you will believe something that other people believe, and that helps you feel like you belong somewhere. But really it's just a cover to keep you from looking at yourself.
So when people are pushed so hard by the mainstream to have such strong feelings, that's mind control. Why go with one side or the other? Why not look at everything soberly? Who do you want to belong to. You know, it comes from your blind spots based on trauma when you felt like you didn't belong. You couldn't belong, you were rejected. So you want to belong. And then that's used. Whatever group you want to belong to, it's manipulated.
So if we as a society wanted to go beyond this formula and cultivate more sobriety, as you say, what might be a first step for us?
Go within. The unconditional model looks at the external power structure and how privileges are used to facilitate the continuation of the divide. ...
Is it then like walking around naked, totally vulnerable and connecting with my vulnerability all the time?
Maybe it's just having an awareness. And mindfulness of yourself when you go within, into yourself. And the Unconditional model looks at how we participate in this external triangular power system where the most depraved people at the top are the secret clubs in the network that cause so much harm and they propagate the psychopathic system to the whole world. Greed and lying are encouraged, anything sexual is reinforced. It's toxic and it works with power and privilege. It helps division and we need to stay divided. So if we decide to go in, if we say "okay, I don't want to continue," that's not the way you get out. The way out of there is to look at how we are unconsciously participating because we are all affected by it. Because the external pyramid, where you have a psychopath, he looks up at the people above him who have more power and he looks down at the people with less power. Some of these very smart psychopaths, they want to be in the highest place, they're very privileged. They want to be in the highest place because they can't stand anybody below them. So they try to get higher and higher, although at the top they are also slaves, nobody is really at the top. They are all slaves. And we participate in that. For example, we don't have to look up to people who have more power. Or we don't have to think that just because someone is a millionaire or successful, they must know what they're talking about. We find out how we participate when we look at how we project. (...) So if I'm putting myself above the psychopaths, then I need to do some work on myself too, because I have a part of me that I haven't accepted yet. That's why I project onto those who are "lower". It's a negative dark projection. It is judging, the most subtle form of dark projection. And if I look up, I put someone on a pedestal. So I look up to an authority figure from my childhood, and there's something unresolved that I need to resolve in myself. If I'm looking down on someone or if I'm judging, it indicates that there are still some things in me that are unresolved.
It's not necessarily a big trauma, but unmet emotional needs, not being able to develop emotionally. So my model helps people inside. Because when you wake up to this reality and the world suddenly looks different, it takes courage to do that and go within, then you can find what needs to be done, because something will be there. Awareness decides everything. The outside world is an expression of what is already inside. So the fact that we have the world that we live in arises just from the fact that it is an expression of us. We all participate in it. So if we're all participants, we need to be more awake, we need to bring our shadows into the light, and the model talks about how to do that. There are many ways to do that, but the easy way is, let's say, through the perspective of the trauma that we need to process and heal ourselves. But in the context of changing the world, in the context of bringing our own shadow into the light, our role shows up anyway. It's like you do - you know you're going through it, meanwhile you have a role in it too, and you start doing the podcast. So you're already even working on how you can help yourself feel less powerless.
Yes, thank you. What drives and helps you, Anneke, to do this work? Because it sounds like it's a big job.
Well, it's a big task. I feel that way. But I've been in the network, and there were kids who didn't make it. And I'm going through the pain that I'm going through not just to survive, but to heal. And it's all done in isolation because nobody, you know, most people don't want to believe that this is real.
I knew these kids, they lived and were killed and their lives are worth nothing. And I can't accept that people look down on this truth and say it's nonsense or it's not true or whatever, because these children were alive, their lives matter. And I'm not going to stop, I'm not going to stop, because their lives matter. I don't accept that this is happening. This is what drives me.
Thank you for staying with it. For continuing. I am wondering what would be a good direction right now, and I am also touched by your strength. I must say it brings hope to see you continue. You are one person, but keep going and saying these things. I appreciate it very much.
I'm thinking about your Unconditional model - you say you're writing a book about it.
Yes, I teach this model. I created an organization to bring yoga to prisons in New York. When I did that, I was in a healing period and it was hard to find a therapist because a lot of therapists are needed. But when a therapist needs me, that's when I lose interest and it's not helpful. So when therapists put themselves above me, even very subtly, they couldn't help me. There are a lot of people who - because they are affected by the toxic power paradigm, use their status to look down on other people, this includes therapists looking down on clients in some way, to deal with their trauma instead of them. You know, it was so uncomfortable being a survivor and getting help. And then learning yoga, which I just love, the meditative and the physical part, but the way it was taught was even worse than the therapists.
You mean abuse by teachers?
Well, that's there too, I've experienced that too. But I think it's more how yoga is taught. Or it was, because now it's different. Before, yoga was taught by coming into a room and taking a certain position. Then somebody came in, grabbed your hips, for example, and pulled them. They touched you without asking you at all. Or they were telling you what to do and you were in the ranks, like soldiers. The practice of yoga is very nice, but there are a lot of obstacles just because of these power issues. I was always sensitive to power issues because I was supposed to be a slave to the most powerful people in the world. So I'm very sensitive to all these little gradations of power and projections of power. So I asked myself how am I going to deal with this.
If I'm going to do it for others, then I can't enter a U.S. prison as a privileged person among the unprivileged, because that's the way it is in most prisons. How do we make it so that we connect from the heart so that there won't be one on top and one on the bottom. I'm not down, but I'm not up either. ... I work with the model with both yoga teachers and therapists. It's not about what role you're in, it's about who you are with people. That's what matters. Whether you're a kind person or an asshole. You can't be a big hero in the world and totally ignore your family. It's the same abuse of power in the world. We have people who are doing everything they can to protect their image and reputation, which is all a lie, and all the resources they have are going to keep their power. Philanthropy is a lie. It's all about them keeping control, except they are totally sick. They are people who need help, or maybe to the point that there is no help for them, that's how bad it is. So how can we reverse that? Look at how this translates into the paradigm of external power - that's how it shows up in the world and everywhere in the Western world. And then how we ourselves are complicit in it. And then how do we use that to be able to be fully on the same level with someone rather than just being aware. It's natural and human to be activated by that. And then to have a reaction and a projection down or up. If you're projecting up, it means you're afraid of somebody. If you're projecting down, it means you're taking the role of the one who has the power. That's all it is. Just be aware that if I'm judging somebody, it's because I have it in me. So I have exercises in the model that you look at yourself through and you'd be surprised what comes out of them. It came out of working in prisons, but I teach it and for example I was in the Czech Republic and I taught it to a group of therapists in 2019. It was amazing, an amazing group from the Social Clinic.
I saw your interview.
Then some interviews were organized. But I've been teaching this for years. First I was training teachers (of yoga). People started coming later because I was sharing my story and they were interested in what I had to say about it. So it evolved over 10 years. It's evolved longer, but it's been 10 years in practice. And the book about it is simple, I think, I'm learning a lot.
You have mentioned many times in interviews that we as a society are progressing, that you see progress, that we are much more sensitive, much more open, that the young generation is completely different. Does that mean that you are optimistic about where and how we are going?
Oh, absolutely. I have my own observation, from when I started speaking in 2014. Reactions are generally much more mature. The video that went viral came out in 2016. There are of course also attacks from the net and people who don't believe and who need to protect hypocritical authority figures. Who need to attack me. I have experienced many attacks. ... The reactions have been more on the level of consciousness, which didn't seem as evolved as it is today, so I feel like we naturally move from darkness to light, for whatever reason, but there is this movement, even though no one is doing anything about it. But part of it is also every person healing. What happens when you heal is that you go to the part that is in fear, in fear of death, which is trauma. You go to the part that is frozen to the place of trauma, to the fear of death. You bring a new perspective, an adult love, a love that that part never got. You bring that part of yourself. And then you bring that part out of the shadows and into the light. And now it has love. It's gone. You've gone from fear to love, from darkness to light. So now you are more whole, you are more true to who you really are. You are expanding, you are evolving, and you are contributing to the general movement from darkness to light because that part of your consciousness is now lighter. So there is more light in the general field of consciousness now, because that little part of you that was always a scared little child, that little child is now loved, has been given a love that it has never received before. Understanding, being heard, acceptance, all of this has been given. When it has received that, then the shame disappears. He understands that it was not his fault. So we have brought it into the light and it's part of the world, it's in the general consciousness. That's why it's important to work on yourself, if you ask what each one of us can do. Changing your world view is also important because it helps with general awareness. But it is also necessary to turn inward. ... It's as if we feel that soon all the lies will be revealed. ... sometimes I'm pessimistic, I'm up one day, down the next. ...
What keeps my optimism is that you Anneke are observing (increasing) levels of sensitivity in society, openness. Maybe there's something to the way you're doing it, Anneke. Are you aware of something? I think you are having success - your message is reaching people, you have even been on Italian TV. I think you're doing something important.
Yes, my hope is that ok, I've been through these experiences since I was a 5 and a half year old kid. Even though the experiences were totally extreme, I spent less time on the net than other people. And the way they trained me helps me do what I do now. I was able to kind of reverse it. They wanted to make me a public figure, so here I am, being a public figure isn't that hard. It's very gratifying in a way to be able to be heard and to use my voice to do that, for a higher purpose. In general, I know how to talk about this subject in a way that can be heard, and that's my goal as well. But a lot of survivors are beginning to share - there's an initiative called 50 voices, that is, 50 survivors of satanic ritual abuse who are testifying in this project. Every day, new and new voices are being added, joining the 50. Many people have begun to speak out. And of course my podcast, I'm helping with that as well. Some people are testifying for the first time or those who have not been known before. So the reality of a lot of these testimonies will no longer be able to be ignored. People are coming to the realization that corruption is much worse than we thought. That is what is happening and, on the other hand, those people on the other side who want to control and are totally insane, it worries me because they have money and power and weapons and they can manipulate countries and the heads of countries. And they are moving towards globalisation, not in a positive way in the sense that everybody is united, but in a harmful way where we are all part of a tyrannical regime where nobody is worth anything and they have the power. That's globalization. ... I've had experiences with Jesus, but my teacher is Yogananda, who showed up during a near-death experience, who is still present, and I would argue that spirit (spirit) is the most important thing if you want to follow truth or unconditional love. The truth of love that is spiritual is a representation of what we call god or the great truth. If you follow that, you are on the path of spirit. Because if you want to follow the truth, it takes courage to overcome fear. Fear is what keeps us in the dark. And fear is what the people who want to control us need. We need to move out of fear. And I don't mean to be reckless. I mean move out of fear. Move away from our traumas so we can live consciously but without fear.
Thank you. My last question concerns an incident a few months ago when you shared on a social network the names and photos of perpetrators you knew. Did it have any effect, any outcome? Did it change anything?
No. Interesting, isn't it? There is so much pressure to share. But I always thought names weren't important. Because it doesn't make a difference. And everybody's pushing me to share names, but nobody ends up doing anything with that information. It costs me a lot of risks. And they threatened my life, because of course, the ones I shared were just a few. Of course there are many more, but I stay away from sharing the bigger names. Threats go very far, I have to be very cautious. The day will come when it will be useful to name people. But I was a little disappointed with that last response, because it required me to overcome my fear of intimidation and also from when I was a kid. That's my original trauma and then all the threats I've received in my adult life. It's not an easy thing to do and then nothing actually happens, so no.. and then naming people who are still alive, for example one of the perpetrators is still alive. I think if I named him, what I would get would be nothing but disbelief from people who want to believe it. They wouldn't believe it was that guy and you know what? It wouldn't have made any difference. Look at Isaac Kappy.
Yes, I tried to get some information about him.
Well, he named a few people. Nothing has changed for them, they are very well known and nothing has changed. At least so far. But Isaac Kappy is dead. So what does that mean? It's going to be important to name people in some way. But for now, we're going to do the things we feel are right.
Thank you Anneke. I wish you good luck and many listening ears and open hearts along the way, thank you for accepting the invitation.
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